Changing Rein

A podcast about horses, people and sport.

Meet our co-hosts

Karen Luke, PhD

Karen is an expert in horse welfare and rider safety, and has a lifetime owning, riding and competing horses. Her research shows that improving horse welfare has many benefits for horse owners, including improved safety and greater enjoyment.

Meta Osborne, MVB

Meta has almost 40 years experience as an equine reproduction vet, and is a passionate horse welfare advocate. She is co-owner of a successful thoroughbred stud and is keen to help create a better future for horses and the racing industry.

LATEST EPISODE - S4E1

Is equine vet Gabriel Lencioni THE person equestrian sport needs right now?

Take a listen and decide.

Gabriel Lencioni is a young, equine vet with an interest in horse welfare and behaviour who is researching how AI can be used to improve horse welfare in equestrian sports and help vets care for horses.

You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
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LATEST EPISODE - S4E1

Not Barefoot or Bust!

Master Farrier talks all things hoof - from treating lameness to improving long-term soundness and everything in between.

Andrew Bowe is a master farrier with an keen interest in bringing hoof care into the 21st century. Take a listen!

You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
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LATEST EPISODE - S3 E2

Thoughts from a critical friend

A conversation with World Horse Welfare CEO

Roly Owers

Should riding bit-free be an option for all equestrian sports?

Should racing include whipping horses to make them run?

What is the most important project in the realm of sport horse welfare right now?

Listen to this episode of Changing Rein and find out from arguably the world's most influential person in horse sport welfare, Roly Owers, CEO of World Horse Welfare (WHW).

Roly Owers has huge influence in sport horse welfare because alongside his World Horse Welfare CEO role, he is a director of British Equestrian the peak body for equestrian sport in Britain, and affiliated with the FEI. Plus he is an advisor to other national and international organisations including the British Horseracing Authority and the International Horse Sports Confederation

What he says matters!

Think all the fuss about horse welfare is overblown?

Or maybe you think the opposite, that not enough is being done...either way you want to know what Roly Owers thinks.

Our conversation covers not only the important changes we have seen in sport horse welfare but what is needed in the future. There are some predictable bits and some surprises...but don't take our word for it...jump in and have a listen!

You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
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LATEST EPISODE - S3E1

Ch-ch-change?

Tools for constructive conversations about change with Bronwen Williams

Bronwen Williams is the author of a fabulous new book, Practical Human Behaviour Change for Animal Health and Welfare. She is also a mental health nurse with over 30 years experience and an educator who teaches the art and skill of motivational interviewing - an approach to creating change built on the notion we are all experts. Sound intriguing? Take a listen!

You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
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S210

All Ears

Charting a career in horse and donkey welfare with Dr Jo Hockenhull

Dr Jo Hockenhull is head of research at leading animal welfare charity, The Donkey Sanctuary.

Jo is a lover of all animals, but horses and donkeys have a special place in her heart. In this episode we discuss her research, the existential threat to the world's donkey population which is the donkey skin trade, and the challenge of creating an ethical, sus

It’s a great conversation, we hope you enjoy it!

You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
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S2E9

Promoting Safety in Equestrian Sport

With organisational safety expert Meredith Chapman

Meredith Chapman was appointed as Equestrian Australia's (EA) first National Health and Safety Manager. This role was actioned following the tragic deaths of two young eventing horse riders in 2016. Prior to her EA appointment, she built a very successful horse breeding operation and ran an organisational safety business.

Meredith is currently completing a PhD in horse-related safety at CQUnivsersity. You'll find Meredith's academic publications on Researchgate.

You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
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S2E8

Upskilling Horses and Riders

Coach expert Marianne Davies shares her dynamic approach that has coaches, riders AND horses wanting more

Marianne Davies is an expert in coaching riders and developing equestrian coaches. She is a senior coaching developer for UK Coaching and runs her own coaching business, Dynamics Coaching and in her spare time she is completing a PhD and leading ground breaking research in coaching science.

This week she shares her dynamic approach to coaching that sees both the horse and rider as active participants in the learning process, which is quite different from behaviourist approaches, such as those used in equitation science.

Marianne explains the science behind her approach, and in the second half of the episode she gives some really practical advice for riders and explains how to set up training situations to help your horse learn.

It’s a great conversation, we hope you enjoy it!

You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.

Terminology

Affordance - opportunity to do something that a horse or person perceives (when coaching and training our horses, we can change the environment to make it easier for the horse (or the rider) to recognise an opportunity so they can attempt a desirable movement or posture.

Constraints-led approach to learning - introductory article

https://adaptivemovement.net/blog/brief-introduction-to-the-constraints-led-approach/


Papers mentioned in the podcast

Wulf & Lethwaite (2016) Optimizing performance through intrinsic motivation and attention for learning: The OPTIMAL theory of motor learning https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26833314/

Scott Kelso (1995) Dynamical system theory and human movement and learning. https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=-VlkX4YAAAAJ

Davies (2023) Can’t jump, won’t jump: Affordances of the horse-rider dyad underpin skill adaptation in showjumping using a constraints-led approach https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/17479541221107379

Marianne Davies podcast: River Tiger https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-river-tiger-podcast-from-dynamics-coaching/id1619766085
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S2E7

Risk, Reputation and Shareholder Value

Talking the business of horse welfare with racing communications expert Vicky Leonard

To say Vicky Leonard is brave is probably an understatement. Back in 2017 she published a series of blogs where she outlined the threat poor horse welfare poses to the racing industry. It caused quite a stir.

Since then she has been advocating for change in the industry because as she sees it, horse welfare is the one issue that could bring racing down.

In the seven years since that post, she has led hard conversations all over the world to help the industry grasp the risk to their reputation, their bottom line...their future.

Like most horse people, Vicky is an optimist and a doer. She not only sees the dangers, but also the opportunities to make things better, and the many positive changes that are already happening.

Vicky gives us a glimpse into the world of racing and her insights are valuable for everyone interested in the future of horses in sport.


You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
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S2E6

The Ethics of Horse Breeding

Part 2 of our conversation with

Professor Madeleine Campbell

While Prof Madeleine Campbell was in our virtual studio we took the opportunity to record a second episode with her - this one is about the ethical aspects of horse breeding (her previous episode, Ethical Equestrianism, is definitely worth a listen).

Without breeding, horse sport would not exist, but ethical consideration has been lacking. Are we breeding the right horses, at the right time, in the right way?

Prof Campbell is a registered specialist in equine reproduction, a horse breeder and also a veterinary ethicist (she is Professor of Veterinary Ethics at the University of Nottingham) so she is uniquely qualified to discuss this sometimes controversial topic. We discuss natural cover, whether applying a limit to the number of mares bred to a stallion should be considered, and potential ethical and welfare issues involved in Assisted Reproductive Technologies (ARTs) in horses.


You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.

Maddy's publications include:

Campbell M. (2014) Does the current regulation of assisted reproductive techniques in the UK safeguard animal welfare? Animal Welfare. 23(1):109-118. doi:10.7120/09627286.23.1.109

Campbell, M. L. H., & Sandøe, P. (2015). Welfare in horse breeding. Veterinary Record, 176(17), 436-440.

Campbell, M. L. (2021). Ethics: use and misuse of assisted reproductive techniques across species. Reproduction and Fertility, 2(3), C23-C28.
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S2E5

Control and communication

A conversation with Hungarian dressage rider, Krisztina Szucs

Control or communication?
It's an interesting question and how we answer it tells us a lot about how we see the world and our relationship with our horse. This week we talk to Hungarian dressage rider Krisztina Szucs, founder of My Way To Dressage.

Krisztina started her dressage career as many people do, as a junior, and achieved gold medal success at the national level as a young rider. After a break from horses and riding she found she still wanted to compete, but something had changed. She found herself concerned about some of the common dressage practices and their effect on horse welfare.

This concern inspired Krisztina to investigate bit free riding. She is now an ambassador for World Bitless Association, and a campaigner for rule changes to allow bit free riding in dressage competition at all levels.

We hope you, like us, find Krisztina's gentle but determined approach to promoting positive change inspiring.

“Alone, we can do so little; together, we can do so much” (H.Keller)

You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
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S2E4

You don't know what you've got until its gone - a conversation with

Dr Camie Heleski

Dr Camie Heleski has worked in horse management and welfare research for over 25 years. She recently served on the FEI Ethics & Wellbeing Commission and she is an Honorary Fellow of the International Society for Equitation Science.
You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
Background information

Dr Camie Heleski has worked in horse management and welfare research for over 25 years. She recently served on the FEI Ethics & Wellbeing Commission and she is an Honorary Fellow of the International Society for Equitation Science.

Additional information 

D. Wayne Lucas - famous US racehorse trainer inducted into both Racing and QH Hall of Fame - Camie mentions him in her journey.

Heleski, C. (2023) Social License to Operate–Why Public Perception Matters for Horse Sport–Some Personal Reflections, Journal of Equine Veterinary Science, 124, May 2023, 104266, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0737080623000576

Heleski, C. & Anthony, R. (2012) Science alone is not always enough: The importance of ethical assessment for a more comprehensive view of equine welfare, Journal of Veterinary Behavior, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jveb.2011.08.003

Luke et al (2022) New insights into ridden horse behaviour, horse welfare and horse-related safety. Applied Animal Behaviour Science, 105539, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2021.105539

Mellor et al (2020) Five Domains Model of Animal Welfare, Animals, https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/10/10/1870

A peak into the animal welfare competition developed by Camie Heleski,

https://www.avma.org/events/animal-welfare-assessment-contest
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LATEST EPISODE - S2E3

Out of the saddle and into the studio with former jockey Fran Berry

This week Karen and Meta talk to Fran Berry, a premier jockey from Ireland who rode more than 1300 winners across a career spanning 23 years. Fran was born into a racing family and has ridden horses all over the globe, making him the perfect person to help us learn about the world of racing and explore opportunities for creating a more sustainable horse industry built on horse welfare. As with all of our guests, you may find yourself agreeing or disagreeing with some of the ideas we discuss, so this week we have introduced the Changing Rein Challenge. Listen to learn about the challenge, and as always, we are keen to hear what you think.
You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
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S2E2

Ethical Equestrianism: A conversation with Prof Madeleine Campbell about the ethics of using horses in sport

The ethics of using horses in sport has never been more topical. Join us as we talk to vet, horsewoman and Prof of Veterinary Ethics Madeleine Campbell and we discover that ethics is something everyone loves to talk about.
You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
Background information

Papers authored by Madeleine Campbell relating to the ethical framework discussed during the episode:

An Ethical Framework for the Use of Horses in Competitive Sport: Theory and Function

Testing and Refining the Ethical Framework for the Use of Horses in Sport


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S2E1

From Tools of the Trade to Valued Equine Partners

A chat with lifelong Canadian horsewoman, Lee McLean

Lee McLean runs a horse retraining business where she specialises in helping horses discover new ways to interact with people based on trust.

You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
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S1 - BONUS

Will Charlotte save equestrian sport?

Video released this week showing high-profile Olympic rider, Charlotte Dujardin, whipping a horse has sparked a huge reaction around the globe.
This week on Changing Rein, Karen and Meta ask the question - could this be the catalyst to spark much needed change in the horse world?

You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
Background information

Jan 2022

Ludger Beerbaum - show jumping (German Olympic medalist) - video showing 'poling' of a horse while training over jumps

“I can’t watch anymore” by Julie Taylor - book documenting numerous practices contributing to poor welfare in various elite equestrian sports - a must read for anyone interested in the future of equestrian sport.

Feb 2022

Mark Todd - eventing (New Zealand Olympic medalist) - video showing the whipping of a horse during training on cross country.

November 2023

Operation X - dressage (Danish Olympic medalist) - video showing various training practices contributing to poor horse welfare in a reportedly billion dollar European dressage business.

May 2024

Danish politician introduces law changes to protect horses in sport - Facebook post

July 2024

Danish politician posts on Olympic hopeful being removed from the Danish equestrian team for ‘making a mistake’ in training her horse - Facebook post

Member of public removed from event for recording and pointing out horse abuse to FEI official - Falsterbo Horse Show (Denmark) - Facebook post

Charlotte Dujardin - dressage (British Olympic medallist) - video showing whipping a horse during training

‘Dressage is in trouble’ - Professor Paul McGreevy, The Guardian - newspaper article


Research on rider motivation and understanding of horse welfare

Broms et al (2020) Super equestrians – the construction of identity/ies and impression management among young equestrians in upper secondary school settings on social media

Cousquer (2023). From domination to dialogue and the ethics of the between: Transforming human–working equine relationships in mountain tourism.

Hogg &Hodgins (2021) Symbiosis or sporting tool?

Luke et al (2024) Investigating the Motivational Priorities Underlying Equestrians’ Horse-Keeping and Training Practices

Luke et al (2024) How equestrians conceptualise horse welfare: Does it facilitate or hinder change?

Luke et al (2022) New insights into ridden horse behaviour, horse welfare and horse-related safety
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LATEST EPISODE - S1E7

Love and Delight

William Micklem's lessons for the future from a lifetime with horses

William Micklem is an equestrian coach, author and breeder, and inventor of the Micklem bridle. He is an enthusiastic proponent of a positive mindset for people...and horses!

You can find Changing Rein on your favourite listening app here.
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S1E6

Protecting tigers, polar bears...and horses? Part 2

In Part 2 of our conversation with Dr Jake Veasey, he shares his approach to assessing the needs of animals and how important they are relative to each other. For example, is hunting the most important need for a tiger? (The answer might surprise you!).

Jake then helps zoos and sanctuaries use this knowledge to create habitats that best meet animals needs - and sometimes these are very different  from traditional enclosures. In this episode, we discuss horse needs, and look at how traditional horse keeping may or may not meet horse's needs.

Read Jake's research:

The importance of prioritizing the meaningful over the measurable for animal welfare

Assessing the welfare priorities for tigers
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S1E5

Protecting tigers, polar bears...and horses? Part 1

Dr Jake Veasey, passionate animal welfare and conservation innovator talks caring for endangered species and horses.
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S1, E4

The Emperor's New Clothes: Racehorse trainer John Berry on thinking differently

In this episode we chat to racehorse trainer John Berry, whose interests range beyond the day to day of training horses and include the history and heritage of horseracing and his involvement in local politics (including a stint as Mayor of Newmarket). John has intriguing things to say about how he runs his 'free-range' racing stable and forthright opinions on the use of certain drugs in racing.

Listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify

Previous episodes

Prequel

Welcome to our tent

Learn about your hosts, Dr Karen Luke - an expert on horse welfare, rider safety and rider motivation and Meta Osborne - an equine reproduction vet of 40 years experience - and why they chose to create another horse podcast!

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